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PingPlotter Frequently Asked Questions

I've got Ping Plotter installed. Now what do I do? I don't have a clue how to get started.
The first ping that I send somewhere is always slow the first time, then every subsequent time it is significantly better (the first hop is really fast; its the first ping that is slow). My first pings run 300-500 ms, then subsequent ones are usually under 100ms, depending on the route.
What's the Export Controls Classification Number (ECCN) for the shareware version of Ping Plotter?
A colleague and I are pinging the same website from different locations (geographically, we are about 30 miles apart, both pinging a server about 1500 miles away) pinging at 15 second intervals. Oddly, I will show a whole spurt of packets dropped by the target server during a particular period, indicating server difficulties, but my colleague may not show that at all. Why would this be? We want to reliably know when the server is having problems, but these differences make it difficult to be sure.
Do you have a support message board? Is it only available to registered users?
Why do I sometimes see blank lines in the graph display? There's a hop number, but there's no IP address, etc. listed.
Do you know of any sites that will do a traceroute back to me, as opposed to me initiating the traceroute from my location?
When I export to a text file, some lines end with * - which seems to mean no response. I also get a few that end with N/A. What does that mean?
Why does one particular hop in the route often show a really bad time - but the hop right after it performs well?
Why does hop 1 (or any number of initial hops) lose packets 100% of the time?
When I set up an alert, it never seems to fire although the "Test" button sends me an e-mail just fine.
Whenever I try to run Ping Plotter I get an error message "Can't get a handle on icmp.dll".
Why do traces to some sites always return "Destination Host Unreachable" (an example of a site that does this is www.microsoft.com). I can connect to this site fine with Internet Explorer or Netscape!
The ping times don't always seem to add up logically to me. For example, I commonly see the avg. time for a single hop being longer than the total return trip number. This doesn't make sense to me. Can you explain this to me?
I'm using a proxy server. Why can't I see anything beyond the proxy server with Ping Plotter?
I have a router in my path someplace that doesn't handle multiple outstanding ICMP requests. Can I change Ping Plotter to use a single thread for tracing?
A "pure ping" using -t switch shows no problems, but Ping Plotter shows many packet losses. What would cause that?
I set an alert condition for an IP. The condition is to send an alert when there are 3 incidents over 2000ms in the last 6 pings. The max e-mail frequency is 30 minutes, and the duration to wait for worse condition is zero. However, I sometimes received alerts in which the most recent 6 pings, as it showed in the alert e-mail, are below the threshold. What did I do wrong to create these false alerts?
Why am I seeing continual route changes when I run PP? There also are 10-50% packet loses on various hops. This doesn't seem to manifest itself when I download files. I am connected to Qwest dsl via a Cisco 678 router.
The route to the destination changes, i.e. gets longer and shorter, and Ping Plotter reports what seems like erroneous packet loss to the destination. What's going on?
My DSL/Cable/whatever modem shows up in the trace. Is there a setting to ignore the first x hops so it doesn't?
Can I specify more than one e-mail address for an alert?
After running Ping Plotter for an extended amount of time my machine gets low on memory. Can Ping Plotter save out my data at predefined intervals?
Can I auto-save out graph images for use on a web page, for ftp transfer, etc.?
How do I setup the trace graph so I can see the average, maximum, minimum, packet loss percentage, etc? I had them visible once, and now I seem to have lost them.
Wow! I can't get enough of this traceroute and ping business. My mind hungers for more knowledge. Got any web links where I can read up?

I've got Ping Plotter installed. Now what do I do? I don't have a clue how to get started.

Ideally you'd go from start to finish through our online tutorial. If you're in a hurry, the Interpreting Results section is probably a good place to start. Again, the preferred way to get started is to peruse the tutorial. It is arranged logically and there are lots of little tidbits and not-so-obvious features in there.

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Why do I sometimes see blank lines in the graph display? There's a hop number but no IP address, etc. listed.

The absence of an IP address for a specific hop means that no router has responded for that hop. This happens on occasion when a router is configured to not respond to TTL=0 ICMP echo requests. This is not common, but does happen occasionally. Another possibility is that the router is configured to "down-prioritize" TTL=0 ICMP echo requests - in which case any load might be prioritized higher - and these packets are discarded. When this happens, you'll sometimes see a hop respond, but sometimes it doesn't, leading to a high packet loss rate.

The really important point to know about these routers is that if they are not affecting the downstream hops, then their behavior should be considered "normal". For example, if you're seeing 75% packet loss at hop 6, but 0% packet loss at hop 7, but 10% packet loss at hop 8 (the final destination), then the problem isn't at hop 6 at all, but somewhere else (for example, between hop 7 and hop 8).

Something to note here is that the moment a router *does* respond on that hop, Ping Plotter will record that information, so whenever you have a blank line, that means that no router has responded at all.

Another possibility is that there is a configuration on the router at that hop where under heavy loads it drops timed out echo replies. The important thing to remember is that what really matters is the final destination. If the final hop is showing 0% packet loss and acceptable latency, then all the hops before that can barf or just not even respond. Point being that you can't blame the machine at the final hop and there probably isn't anything seriously wrong with the route.

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Do you know of any sites that will do a traceroute back to me, as opposed to me initiating the traceroute from my location?

One of the best sites is at traceroute.org. There's also a good list at traceroute-gateways.com.

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When I export to a text file, some lines end with * - which seems to mean no response. I also get a few that end with N/A. What does that mean?

Because of the limitations of text files (and the tools you're probably trying to import this data into - like Excel), only a single route is listed, and then the data is all printed with respect to that route. Sometimes, this means that there are routers in the collected data that aren't in the route you had selected when you export. Usually, the best way to do an export is to set up your graphs so it's focused in on the period you're interested in exporting - and then making sure that you have the right route selected for that (version 2.30.1 helps you do this by automatically selecting the most current route for the time period you have selected). Even then, though, only a single route can be used in an export, so if you have a bunch of routes in your data, the export will exclude some of this data.

Now, if you really don't care about route changes, but really care only about your final destination (you're planning to do an export) there are ways to get rid of the N/As and to combine data collected by multiple routers (at a particular hop) into a set of data that can be exported. This is done by setting up Ping Plotter to ignore some of the internal route changes. You can either do this for specific router groups, or just say you don't care about anything except for the most major (i.e. changing lengths) route changes by putting an "ALL" in for the exclusion list.

Another opportunity for N/As to show up is when you're snap a "Copy as Text" when you're still in the midst of a trace. There might be some outstanding requests out there that just haven't had an opportunity to respond yet. Because we don't know yet. They're not time-outs, so we show that as N/A.

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Why does one particular hop in the route often show a really bad time - but the hop right after it performs well?

It appears that some routers just don't prioritize timed out ICMP requests very high (ICMP requests where the TTL equals 0 after reaching them). If the hop right after consistently performs well, just don't factor this hop into your troubleshooting equation (i.e. ignore it).

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Why does hop 1 (or any number of initial hops) lose packets 100% of the time?

Often your local router just doesn't respond (or respond fast enough) to ICMP requests. If you have this happening, you can ignore the initial hops that are timing out (View/Ignore first hop(s)).

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When I set up an alert, it never seems to fire - although the "Test" button sends me an e-mail just fine.

Once you've set up an alert, you have to attach the alert to the IP address you want to monitor. This gives you the capability to use different alerts for different IP addresses.

To attach an alert to an IP, trace to the host you're interested in. Then, right-click on the hop you want to monitor. Select "Add Monitor". Then select an alert (or multiple alerts) from the list. This should put a [...] around the hop that's being monitored.
For a detailed explanation of alerts go here.

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Whenever I try to run Ping Plotter I get an error message "Can't get a handle on icmp.dll".

Ping Plotter uses a .DLL that's provided by Microsoft and is used by their "PING" and "TRACERT" packages. If you haven't installed these, then that .DLL might not be installed. If you're running Windows NT, these are installed by adding "Simple TCP/IP Services" to the "Services" tab of your network setup. If you're running 95/98, they should have been already installed - you may need to reinstall your TCP/IP protocol.

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Why do traces to some sites always return "Destination Host Unreachable" (an example of a site that does this is www.microsoft.com). I can connect to that site fine with Internet Explorer or Netscape!

One of the routers used between you and the destination site are not passing through ICMP echo requests. Some sites, for security reasons, have their firewalls setup to not echo back ICMP packets so they can appear "invisible" to automated hacker scanning tools.

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The ping times don't always seem to add up logically to me. For example, I commonly see the avg. time for a single hop being longer than the total return trip number. This doesn't make sense to me. Can you explain this to me?

One of the routers used between you and the destination site are not passing through ICMP echo requests. Some sites, for security reasons, have their firewalls setup to not echo back ICMP packets so they can appear "invisible" to automated hacker scanning tools. It appears that some routers just don't prioritize timed out ICMP requests very high (ICMP requests where the TTL equals 0 after reaching them). This often means that a specific site will take a lot longer to respond back to you than it does to send the packet on to the next host. If the hop right after consistently performs well, you can often just not use this hop in your troubleshooting equation. On the other hand, if you start dropping a lot of packets at this hop (that show up in later hops as well), this may indicate that the router is overloaded (i.e. - doesn't have enough processor time to do all it's tasks).

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I'm using a proxy server. Why can't I see anything beyond the proxy server with Ping Plotter?

We don't know of any proxy servers that pass on PING/TRACERT requests. This means that Ping Plotter doesn't work with a proxy server at all. The only way you can really measure network performance on the other side of the proxy server is to run Ping Plotter on the proxy server (or a machine that's not behind the proxy). You can always ask your network administrator to pipe you directly out through your firewall (if you have one), effectively bypassing any proxy.

We've had some really good success with NAT type IP sharing, though - NAT seems like it works much better than proxy solutions do for hooking a network up to the Internet and only using a single IP address. WinRoute is an example of a product that seems to do this very well.

Somewhat unrelated, but if you want auto-version checking to work, and you're behind a proxy, you have to set it up in the Internet settings under Advanced Options.

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I have a router in my path someplace that doesn't handle multiple outstanding ICMP requests. Can I change Ping Plotter to use a single thread for tracing?

Absolutely! Using a single outstanding trace thread seriously impacts the performance of Ping Plotter, but sometime's it's necessary to do this. Note: You need to close all instances of Ping Plotter before doing these steps.

  • Open up your PingPlotter.INI file in your editor of choice (this file is in the Ping Plotter directory).
  • Insert a new line in the "Advanced" section of the .INI file. This line should read "MaxThreadCount=1" (without the quotes).
  • Open Ping Plotter. In the "Edit" menu, go to "Advanced Options" and the "Packet Options" tab, change the "Time interval between hop traces" to 0. (This ups the performance somewhat, isn't necessary, but very helpful).
  • Review the "Timeout speed" setting (this setting is in milliseconds - or 1/1000 of a second). If you never expect a hop to take more then 1 second to respond, enter 1000 here. Try to set it to the lowest reasonable number.
  • Turn *ON* "Use non-threaded Name Lookups".

To reverse this, remove the "MaxThreadCount=1" line from your PingPlotter.ini file. Change the "Time interval between hop traces" back to the default of 25, then change the "Use non-threaded Name Lookups" off again in advanced options. You can change the "Time-out speed" back to 9999 at this point as well, but you don't have to.

Go here to see information on thread counts.
Go here for more packet options.

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A "pure ping" using -t switch shows no problems, but Ping Plotter shows many packet losses. What would cause that?
  • The packet size could be different, and that different packet size in Ping Plotter may be causing some packet loss. Note that this is a problem with the router, not Ping Plotter, but you can change the packet size to something smaller than default to see if this affects it. Go here to see how to change the packet size.
  • Having multiple simultaneous outstanding ICMP echo requests may be causing a problem in one of the routers. This isn't too uncommon, but is almost always traced back to a hub on the local side (BIOS updates often help this). See the FAQ entry above if you want Ping Plotter to do one outstanding request at a time.
  • In some very isolated cases, we've seen a difference in packet loss based on the contents of the packets. Ping -t uses a repeating sequence of "abcdefghijklmnopqurstuvw" while Ping Plotter uses repeating $AA. You can change Ping Plotter to be the same as Ping by creating a text file with the same thing that PING sends (i.e.: create the file with abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvw in it), and then go to Advanced options and change the packet cargo to use this file. This is kind of a long shot, though, as in all cases where we've seen this make a difference, Ping Plotter was used to simulate and extraordinary bytes sequence that stimulated the packet loss, and the $AA wasn't that sequence. This is worth trying though since it's quite easy to do.
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I set an alert condition for an IP. The condition is to send an alert when there are 3 incidents over 2000ms in the last 6 pings. The max e-mail frequency is 30 minutes, and the duration to wait for worse condition is zero. However, I sometimes received alerts in which the most recent 6 pings, as it showed in the alert e-mail, are below the threshold. What settings did I do wrong to create these false alerts?

Check to make sure that your "Maximum samples to hold in memory" isn't set too low. The setup in this case had e-mails going out at maximum every 30 minutes. The "Max samples in memory" was actually set to only hold about 25 minutes worth of data at a time, so sometimes the alert would go out based on conditions that had already dropped out of memory.

To fix this problem, just change the "Max samples to hold in memory" to hold at least the amount of time your maximum e-mail frequency is, preferably a bit more (as the history files that can be included in the e-mails can actually show more data than this).

To see how to change this setting go here.

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Why am I seeing continual route changes when I run PP? There also are 10-50% packet loses on various hops. This doesn't seem to manifest itself when I download files. I am connected to Qwest dsl via a Cisco 678 router.

Route changes are a pretty normal fact of life with the Internet. It sometimes happens for load balancing reasons, sometimes to route your data around problem areas, or a number of other possible reasons.

Ping Plotter, by default, keeps track of ALL route changes. Normally, this works really well - and pretty much without notice by anyone (unless you're looking for it). The time when it can start to cause problems in the data that Ping Plotter displays is when the length of the route changes (when your destination shows up at different hops, depending on the route being used) - as the changing routes cause problems in the final hop.

If you want to suppress recording information about route changes, you can do this in Ping Plotter unless the length of the route is changing, in which case recording these changes can't be suppressed

Now, there are a few different variations of things that could cause problems, and causing your packet loss. A big variable in this is whether or not your route length is changing.

One thing to know about Ping Plotter (and all ping tools) compared to HTTP web access is that HTTP uses error correction in its communication. If you get a lost packet when transferring HTTP, you often don't notice this because the protocol corrects for errors. The ICMP protocol (which is used by Ping Plotter and other ping tools) is lossy - so if something along the way drops data, it's never corrected - just reported by whatever tool sent it out. This is one possible reason why you're not seeing lost data when browsing the web or downloading something, but are seeing it with Ping Plotter.

The symptoms seen when data is lost in an error correcting protocol is that performance suffers. When data is lost, the protocol negotiates for it to be resent and this takes time. If you're seeing slow performance when downloading files, or browsing the web, it's possible that the drop in performance is being caused by packet loss.

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The route to the destination changes, i.e. gets longer and shorter, and Ping Plotter reports what seems like erroneous packet loss to the destination.

Whenever a route gets longer, Ping Plotter will show one lost packet at your final destination. This is what could possibly be happening.

Here's a brief description of why this happens:
When Ping Plotter determines that the final destination has been reached, it only sends out enough packets to reach the final destination. So if your route is 13 hops long, it only sends out enough packets to reach hop 13. Whenever the route gets longer, another router reports in at hop 13 and Ping Plotter figures out that it needs to send out more packets to reach the final destination - but it doesn't do this until the next sample set is sent out. This means there is always a single lost packet associated with this route lengthening. This doesn't occur when the route shortens - only when it gets longer.

Some other tools address this by only grabbing the route on the first set, and then just "pinging" each destination directly on future samples. Ping Plotter versions before 2.30 handled this a bit differently - by ignoring the information about the hop's IP address when it came back, and always just using the hop number (rather than the IP address) to decide where to put things. In both of these cases, you wouldn't see packet loss at the final hop - but the data being reported would be flat wrong (because data was being associated with a router that was no longer even in the route!).

This is a very rare, but documented issue that will be handled in a future release.

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My DSL/Cable/whatever modem shows up in the trace. Is there a setting to ignore the first x hops so it doesn't?

Yes, you can change this in the View/Ignore First Hop(s) menu. The default is "trace all hops". From this menu option you can skip hops 1, 2, 3 and 4. To eliminate your modem from the graph display you'd set this option to Start at Hop 2. If you wish, you can also from this option choose to only trace the final hop.

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Can I specify more than one e-mail address for an alert?
Yes, to specify more than one destination e-mail address for an alert, just separate the e-mail addresses by commas or semicolons.
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After running Ping Plotter for an extended amount of time my machine gets low on memory. Can Ping Plotter save out my data at predefined intervals so the data doesn't eat up a lot of memory?
Definitely. Ping Plotter's overall footprint on your machine should be very small. By tweaking the maximum number of samples to be held in memory, along with the auto-saving of data, you can limit the amount of memory used but still have access to all the data collected. Go here to read more than you'll ever want to know about auto-saving of data. We've seen sample sets of over one million contiguous samples with no noticeable effect on the computer running Ping Plotter other than the amount of disk space used for the save files.
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Can I auto-save out graph images for use on a web page, for ftp transfer, etc.?

Yes, in either BMP or PNG format. In the auto-save image section you can set the save interval to tell Ping Plotter how often to save the images, what filename to save the data to and what type of image format to save the graph in. Go here to find out more.

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How do I setup the trace graph so I can see the average, maximum, minimum, packet loss percentage, etc? I had them visible once and now I seem to have lost them.

Do a mouse "right-click" anywhere on the upper graph area. You will then see the menu that gives you the options to turn those columns on and off. One thing to keep in mind is that if you plan on sending a graph to your ISP, etc. you may want to turn off the average, maximum and minimum and only show the packet loss percentage. See the Beating Up on Your ISP section of the tutorial for more details.

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Wow! I can't get enough of this traceroute and ping business. My mind hungers for more knowledge! Got any web links where I can read up?

Sure thing. We've got a few links at the bottom of our table of contents for the tutorial including The Ping Page and The History of Ping. If your dreams are still haunted by visions of ping you can see a ping packet decode here, learn about the inventor of ping (who sadly died in a car accident in November of 2000) and of course visit our How Ping Plotter Works page in the Ping Plotter tutorial.

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Do you have a support message board? Is it only available to registered users?

We sure do. While we'd like to think everybody that finds Ping Plotter useful will register the software, sometimes it just doesn't happen. With that, the support boards are freely available to all by clicking here.

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What's the Export Controls Classification Number (ECCN) for the shareware version of Ping Plotter?

Ping Plotter shareware would fall under the ECCN of EAR99

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The first ping that I send somewhere is always slow the first time, then every subsequent time it is significantly better (the first hop is really fast; its the first ping that is slow). My first pings run 300-500 ms, then subsequent ones are usually under 100ms, depending on the route.

We usually see this more on dial-up connections as compared to broadband connections. The first sample with Ping Plotter has significantly more bandwidth usage than subsequent ones. First off, the first sample always sends out 35 packets. Ping Plotter has no idea how long the actual route is (and it wants to return data as fast as possible), so it sends out 35 packets each separated by a small time period (as specified in Advanced Options / Packet Option tab / Time interval between hop traces. This defaults to 25ms which means with a 56 byte packet, you're looking at a bit over 2 K/s of bandwidth used. If you have more than a 56 byte packet specified, this is higher. Once Ping Plotter knows the route length ie: sample 2 and beyond, it only sends out as many packets as is necessary to make the final destination. There is a small chance that this will impact your bandwidth the first time the trace is initiated.

Second, as individual results come back on the first sample, the routers that have responded also need to have their names looked up. This happens immediately as each hop responds back. This means that there is additional bandwidth being used at this point as Ping Plotter talks to the DNS server(s). This handshaking doesn't take a lot of time, but it can overlap and has a chance to impact the first sample set's times.

If you want to see if this is impacting you at all, there are several ways to set Ping Plotter. First off, to disable the impact of the reverse DNS lookups, there's an option to disable threaded (concurrent) DNS lookups. Reset your trace and see if the behavior is any different.

Another way to minimize the impact of Ping Plotter's network usage is to change the time interval between hop traces. If you've got it set to 25, try changing it to 75 or 100. This will slow the rate at which Ping Plotter uses network resources.

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A colleague and I are pinging the same website from different locations (geographically, we are about 30 miles apart, both pinging a server about 1500 miles away) at 15 second intervals. Oddly, I will show a whole spurt of packets dropped by the target server during a particular period, indicating server difficulties, but my colleague may not show that at all. Why would this be? We want to reliably know when the server is having problems, but these differences make it difficult to be sure.

This definitely sounds like the RETURN route. Due to the way traceroute is implemented, Ping Plotter can only find the route a packet follows to get TO the destination, not how it gets back. What's more important is that the route your packets take TO the server from your computer is more often than not completely different than the route taken FROM the server back to your computer. This is what's known as asynchronous routing.

So in cases where you see only the final destination with packet loss, the return route may be significantly different when coming back from the final destination than it is when coming back from the hop right before it.

The best way to troubleshoot this is to have access to traceroute from that server. This isn't feasible for most situations, but if you have a business relationship with them, you may be able to get them to run a traceroute back to you so you can see where the packet loss is occuring. Some sites even have tools installed for you to check this yourself. For instance, TheNetGamer.com provides this type of tool for their customers.

To that end, here is a nice page of servers that will trace back to you located at ISPWorld. In your troubleshooting you would want to select a traceroute server listed there and use the IP address you believe to be the problem, i.e. the one you're tracing to in Ping Plotter. If that trace returns an abnormally high ping also, you have found the problem router, and it is on the TO route. If not, it is time to turn your attention to the FROM route. If you suspect a problem on your return route, you can use one of the server-side traceroute facilities (if one exists at that end point) to find out what the route BACK is. This should point to the problem router. If not, then unfortunately you've found one of the weaknesses of trace route troubleshooting in that it only shows the route in one direction.

There are also very rare instances where you may have ran into a multi-homed router. This is where multiple backbone providers are using the same router. These are pretty rare, but have been becoming more and more common (F5 networks makes one of these monsters that can handle insane amounts of traffic) as providers consolidate/merge/etc. If you are at a total loss trying to find the problem, you may have run into one of these puppies. If you suspect this is the case, email us your trace data at support@pingplotter.com and we'll try and take a look for you.

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